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The Cardinal who voted yes for the EU Constitution
(source: The Times, Thursday, June 2nd 2005)

The Netherlands' only cardinal, Adrianus Johannes Simonis, is taking part in the 25th Federation of European Carnival Cities International Convention being held in Nadur until Saturday. In an interview with Steve Mallia, he explains why he has voted in favour of the EU Constitution unlike the majority of his countrymen. He also says he was expecting an Italian to be elected Pope and described April's two-day conclave as "an amazing process".

What brought you to the Maltese islands?
The 25th anniversary of the foundation of carnival cities, which is a European association. The president is a Dutchman and last year he asked me to come over. I have to deliver a homily about the significance of carnival.

And what for you is the significance of carnival?
It is a Christian feast and in most countries it is celebrated before Lent. And, if it is inspired in a Christian way, it is very important to care for native values.

The Netherlands is viewed as a liberal country...
...very liberal...

...the two islands here are very conservative. Do you think there can be anything in common between the two countries?
I would prefer to say that this country is orthodox as opposed to conservative. That is another appreciation. Let it be orthodox. We have to be orthodox. Liberalism is the end of everything and also the end of many values. If you are orthodox, believing in a Christian way, then you can maintain your real values.

Is it just a perception that The Netherlands is more liberal?
No, it is a liberal country. There are happily still enough orthodox people but they are in a minority.

Is it much more difficult to be a cardinal there than elsewhere?
Oh yes, certainly. A cardinal in the public environment doesn't mean anything in our country. You are considered like a kind of administrator. And here you are considered as an esteemed person.

What are the biggest challenges you have to overcome in a culture like that?
To use the words of the new Pope, Benedict XVI, we try to be the "salt of the earth"; to be real Christians in a pagan society. And I think that is very evangelical.

Do you think society has become totally pagan?
I find our country pagan.

Is there anything you can do about that?
We try to speak to young people, to get them to think about the real values of life and not to be content with the superficiality of the modern world.

And what for you are the real values of life?
The real values are honesty, being religious, being faithful, justice and real peace. They are the most important. Also very important is purity in life and secularity and so on. On that side, it is completely pagan.

The Netherlands was the first European country to tolerate euthanasia. How do you feel when these kinds of things are happening in your country?
It is something terrible. In the bishops' conference we make declaration after declaration but people don't listen. And the tolerance in our country has gone so far that many people say: "Well, I am not really keen on a homosexual marriage but if other people like to do it, then let them do it." Tolerance has reached the point of indifference.

Do you think people are walking away from the Church because it has failed to update itself?
That is a reason. But I think the Church is right in her doctrine. That is authority and people don't like authority. They say, "well, the bishop has an opinion, but I also have mine and that is equal". But that is against the teachings of the Gospel because Jesus said to his apostles that "hearing you is hearing Me".

Given the changing world, should the Church change or should it remain where it is?
The Church should change where it is possible but it should absolutely not change where it is not possible; and that is in the eternal truths of being a human being.

Should the Church at least discuss these issues?
We are always discussing these issues. And bringing forward arguments for the whole doctrine of the Church.

But there are certain topics within the Church that are non-negotiable such as euthanasia, contraception, homosexual unions...
...the doctrine of the Church is true when it comes to those things. I have to try to explain the arguments in support of that truth.

The Dutch people are voting on the EU Constitution and the big probability is that they will reject it, like the French. Given the controversy of the lack of mention of God in it...
...that (lack of mention of God) is a terrible thing. I myself am voting in favour of the Constitution. There is a place for the Church in it.

Do you believe in this Constitution for Europe?
It is only the beginning. I hope in future there will be a better Constitution.

How could it be better in your opinion?
To try and convince people of it and that requires a lot of patience.

Given the size of the EU, do you think its possible for so many countries to adopt a single Constitution?
I hope it will be possible in future. We need each other. We are living in a world of globalisation. Europe has Christian roots and we have to bring that to the people. We have to convince people of their own roots but also, in terms of the economy, it is very, very necessary for us to be European because in the future China and Asia will rule the whole world. We have to be an economic force.

Why do you think, then, that the French have rejected it and it seems that the Dutch will reject it?
In France, it is the idea of superiority - an exaggeration of their own identity. In the case of The Netherlands, it could be a minority complex. We have a complex that we are a small country and people therefore reason "we will show that we have power". Stubborn.

Was the choice of the new Pope as easy for the cardinals as it seemed to everybody on the outside?
Cardinal (Joseph) Ratzinger is one of the greatest thinkers in the world, so it is not so strange that the Holy Spirit elected Pope Benedict XVI.

Given that it was so fast, it seemed a very easy process.
It is an amazing process. I went to Rome with the idea that an Italian will become Pope. And after four sessions Cardinal Ratzinger was elected. It was amazing.

So you were quite convinced that an Italian was going to be elected Pope.
When I considered everything, yes, I thought we would have an Italian.

Traditionally, the conclaves have been a very secret process. But the details of this one seemed to leak out almost immediately after this one was over. Do you think that was desirable?
It is a very good thing that the conclave remains secret.

But the details of this one emerged in the Italian newspapers straight after it ended.
I cannot comment on whether the reports that appeared in the newspapers were true or not. I let them speak but the conclave is secret and has to remain secret.

What was the reaction in The Netherlands to the election of Cardinal Ratzinger?
People who know him have an esteem for his intelligence and for his personality. We will have to see what the reaction of The Netherlands is.

Did you know him before he became Pope?
Yes, I have known him very well for the past 34 years. I have had many discussions with him.

What do you think is his greatest strength and his biggest weakness?
I only know his good side - and that is his spiritual and intellectual superiority.

And his biggest challenge?
The biggest challenge for every Pope are the big problems in the world and they are justice and peace. Questions of rich and poor and questions of faith.

He has received a lot of criticism in the media since his appointment. Do you think that was fair?
I didn't see such a lot of criticism. But every Pope receives a certain amount of criticism so it doesn't amaze me.

Do you think the beatification process of Pope John Paul II came too soon?
Certainly not for me. But it depends on what the new Pope decides.